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Datshiane Navanayagam talks to two women from Sweden and the United States about what they've learned about how people find moments of joy and how to treasure them.

Kate Bowler is an historian, podcaster and author. She wrote Joyful Anyway after a stage IV bowel cancer diagnosis. Kate says joy isn't something that can be sold by influencers or found in daily journaling. It comes in both the surprising and the expected moments life brings us - and it's perfectly possible to be unhappy and filled with joy at the same time.

Marit Kapla is a Swedish author and journalist. For two of her books she's listened to hundreds of people talk about their lives. Her prize-winning Osebol is based upon interviews with almost all the residents of her home village. Love in Swedish consists of interviews with people all over Sweden about love. Marit says finding joy in one鈥檚 life can be difficult and complicated, and the people she's spoken to have many different approaches.

Produced by Jane Thurlow