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Matthew Sweet interviews Karen Joy Fowler author of a novel which looks at the consequences of introducing a primate into a family and the human fascination with anthropomorphism with animal studies experts Susan McHugh and Giovanni Aloi. From Cape Town the South African man of the theatre Athol Fugard pays tribute to his late friend and fellow activist the author Nadine Gordimer. After today’s Howard League conference on community sentencing Matthew asks David Wilson and Gerard Lemos, commentators on the penal system, whether there is an alternative to prison or if prison is the alternative.